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First of all, I want to apologize for my poor english skills. I'm not a native English speaker.
I've always wondering what's the real profit of slot machines for casinos. For example, if one day 1,000 people go to a casino with $100 and every one play a few hours of slot machines with a 95% RTP: 1000 x 100 = $100,000, turning a theoretical 5% of profit for the casino: $5,000, it this correct? Or does it count every spin for the RTP? For ex. someone who brings to a casino $100 can play with $400 between winnings and losses, the casino profit for that guy will be 5% of the $400 ($20)? I'd appreciate if someone can explain it to me.
Thank you!
Greetings from Perú.
Administrator
The 95% example you gave is a theoretical amount that the casino should receive over the long run; for every $100 run through the machine, the casino expects to keep $5 on average. The slot is programmed to have winning and losing spins come up randomly, but each a certain amount of times that will be realized over many, many spins.
Some people will lose the whole $100 without a win; some people will win $100 or more right away and walk away. Other people will keep playing when they win, maybe quit even again, maybe continue until they lose, maybe keep winning and get up with more than they put in.
It all is expected to average out to $5 lost per $100 spent. But almost no individual player will have that exact experience. I think your understanding of it is pretty close to that, based on what you wrote, but I hope that my explanation helps.
FWIW, Casinos in the US (and perhaps in Peru) use the amount a gambler puts through a machine (how much money they 'expose') multiplied by the House Edge (rough description of this formula), to decide how valuable that customer has been to them; whether the customer won or lost, their value to the casino is based on that theoretical amount, and they will offer complimentary cash, rooms, and prizes that will draw those customers to return.
Thank you! I've read this forum for many years. I really appreciate your response. I was checking some oficial documents from the local government regarding the financial statistics from the local casino and here is some of the info from the last month (Approximately. I'm using example numbers):
Visitors per month: 9,000
Average spend per visitor: $50
Total wagered on slot machines: $4,950,000
Real monthly RTP: 95%
So, as you can see, people spent approximately $450,000 in the month, but wagered $4,950,000. That's eleven times the total spend. I don't know if I'm not understanding correctly the document or there is a kind of error. What does that mean? That the profit of the casino it's the 5% of the total wagered? ($247,500) Or it's just the 5% of the total spend? ($22,500)
if one day 1,000 people go to a casino with $100 and every one play a few hours of slot machines with a 95% RTP: 1000 x 100 = $100,000, turning a theoretical 5% of profit for the casino: $5,000, it this correct?
Yes, if and only if they each play $100 of spins and leave.
Most people do not do this. Most people playing on $100 actually play $1200 or more worth of games, as they play through their winnings as well as their initial bankroll.
Every $1 spin on a slot machine has the same 5 cent theoretical profit for the casino, assuming your 95% RTP.
I would expect if 1000 people with $100 each came in that they would play about 1,000,000 $1 spins (or equivalent), and house profit would be about $50,000.
If each spin took a slow 10 seconds, that would mean each player would play about 2 hours 45 minutes. On a more realistic 6 seconds per spin, that's a little longer than an hour and a half. Both of these numbers are well within what I've seen as possible.
If the place is 60% full for 14 hours, this is doable on about 250 machines.
I have no idea if this covers rent on the slot machines and TITO units.
Money played: $1,300,000
Money returned: $1,210,000
Commission: $90,000
So the $1,300,000 isn't necessary what people put on the machine. I would expect that people only put $130,000 or less. So if the casino received $130,000 in cash and returned $90,000, the real return it's near 30%? (!)
Administrator
Hi!
Thank you! I've read this forum for many years. I really appreciate your response. I was checking some oficial documents from the local government regarding the financial statistics from the local casino and here is some of the info from the last month (Approximately. I'm using example numbers):
Visitors per month: 9,000
Average spend per visitor: $50
Total wagered on slot machines: $4,950,000
Real monthly RTP: 95%
So, as you can see, people spent approximately $450,000 in the month, but wagered $4,950,000. That's eleven times the total spend. I don't know if I'm not understanding correctly the document or there is a kind of error. What does that mean? That the profit of the casino it's the 8% of the total wagered? ($247,500) Or it's just the 8% of the total spend? ($36,000)
Well, those are a bit different, perhaps made more complicated by translation from Spanish to English.
If I'm interpreting based on how it's done here:
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$4,950,000 is called the 'drop', or how much is 'exposed' by all the gamblers together by making wagers.95% RTP is what was returned to players from that drop, or $4,702,500. So the 'win' or 'hold' on the machines was $247,500, the other 5%.
The 9000*$50 per person (assuming this is only what they directly bet, not the amount they spent on their entire visit, like the economic impact including bar profits, gift shop, whatever), reflects the real impact of the HE on repeated exposure of your money to it. The house edge takes a cut at your money every time you cycle it, not just the first $100 you expose. And that adds up. So I would say, the house was able to keep (gross) 55% of the money made available to them during that month (247,500/450,000), while that base amount (450,000) was exposed to them approximately 11 times per $100 available.
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I could, as always, be wrong. But I don't think those numbers are unrealistic.
Dragon Spin Casino Slots
So it's normal that slot machine players wager 10 times their initial bankroll?
Some more, some less, but I think this is a reasonable approximation for many players. This matches what I generally observe for 'normal' players.
Compulsives and AP's are different, but averaging them together might come out around the same.
Gross revenue (WIN): $450,000, which it's the amount of visitors * average spend. I'm really trying to figure how much this casino earns, haha.
Administrator
So it's normal that slot machine players wager 10 times their initial bankroll? And the real profit of the casino it's a % of the total wager? This casino have a large screen which holds all the statics from the previous day. Example:
Money played: $1,300,000
Money returned: $1,210,000
Commission: $90,000
So the $1,300,000 isn't necessary what people put on the machine. I would expect that people only put $130,000 or less. So if the casino received $130,000 in cash and returned $90,000, the real return it's near 30%? (!)
The $1,300,000 is exactly what people put in the machine. Your question is (I think), where did that money come from? It could 100% be straight out of people's pockets, it could be them cycling the same money 10 times, 20 times, 30 times on average. That answer is the RTP. If everybody just plain lost, and kept feeding new money into the slots anyway, the RTP would be 0%. In your example above, the RTP is 93.077%.
So the casino made $90,000 that day. Other days, it could be a negative number, if the money returned was larger than the money played. But for the real impact on the players, you'd have to know how many came in (the numbers you listed before) and their average or actual losses. I'm sure the casino tracks those, but what they really want to know is how much of the money that came in people's pockets stayed in their casino. They could've broken everybody and realized 100% of what came in. Maybe it was 2%. In your previous example, it was 55%. I'm sure those metrics matter to them in determining what games to keep offering, what clients to concentrate on making into repeat customers, whether their staffing is appropriate (not leaving people with money looking for games, but also not a lot of paid staff standing at dead games). But the bottom line is they made 90K that day, or almost 7% of the drop. That's actually a little low, I think; again, I could be wrong.
Players share their thoughts on beating the Slot machines
By John Grochowski
When penny slots emerged, the game manufacturers needed a way to make bonus wins big enough that players thought they were worth playing for. Games with higher volatility, and bigger payoffs, were necessary in order to make them seem worthwhile to penny players
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Slot machines are not 'strategic' games like blackjack or video poker. There are slots that require you to make decisions, but none that are going to shift the long-term odds of the game.
That doesn't stop players from trying to think of ways to beat the slots, and many have emailed to ask if there is any validity to their strategies. Let's check a few out:
Tim, Pennsylvania: 'I know that on video slots we don't have to bet the max anymore. I usually just cover the all paylines with one coin bets. But one day I doing well—I was up to five coins a line on a penny slot, and I got to thinking. Would I have been better off to switch to one coin a line on a nickel slot? The nickels have higher paybacks, right?'
That's a theory that gets a qualified 'yes,' but with a whole lot of reservations. For one thing, Tim's theory assumes that you can find the same game on both pennies and nickels in the same casino. That's by no means a given.
Even if you do find the game at both levels, the penny and nickel version won't always have the same number of paylines. If you're on a penny game with 20 or more lines, will you be satisfied to find an older nickel version with nine or 15 lines? If fewer paylines won't keep you entertained, there's no point in putting your money in the machine.
Then there are a whole slew of 'ifs' about the type of game, such as:
Administrator
I'm not a math guy, but I'll try to give you a short version, and let others correct it if necessary.
The 95% example you gave is a theoretical amount that the casino should receive over the long run; for every $100 run through the machine, the casino expects to keep $5 on average. The slot is programmed to have winning and losing spins come up randomly, but each a certain amount of times that will be realized over many, many spins.
Some people will lose the whole $100 without a win; some people will win $100 or more right away and walk away. Other people will keep playing when they win, maybe quit even again, maybe continue until they lose, maybe keep winning and get up with more than they put in.
It all is expected to average out to $5 lost per $100 spent. But almost no individual player will have that exact experience. I think your understanding of it is pretty close to that, based on what you wrote, but I hope that my explanation helps.
FWIW, Casinos in the US (and perhaps in Peru) use the amount a gambler puts through a machine (how much money they 'expose') multiplied by the House Edge (rough description of this formula), to decide how valuable that customer has been to them; whether the customer won or lost, their value to the casino is based on that theoretical amount, and they will offer complimentary cash, rooms, and prizes that will draw those customers to return.
Thank you! I've read this forum for many years. I really appreciate your response. I was checking some oficial documents from the local government regarding the financial statistics from the local casino and here is some of the info from the last month (Approximately. I'm using example numbers):
Visitors per month: 9,000
Average spend per visitor: $50
Total wagered on slot machines: $4,950,000
Real monthly RTP: 95%
So, as you can see, people spent approximately $450,000 in the month, but wagered $4,950,000. That's eleven times the total spend. I don't know if I'm not understanding correctly the document or there is a kind of error. What does that mean? That the profit of the casino it's the 5% of the total wagered? ($247,500) Or it's just the 5% of the total spend? ($22,500)
if one day 1,000 people go to a casino with $100 and every one play a few hours of slot machines with a 95% RTP: 1000 x 100 = $100,000, turning a theoretical 5% of profit for the casino: $5,000, it this correct?
Yes, if and only if they each play $100 of spins and leave.
Most people do not do this. Most people playing on $100 actually play $1200 or more worth of games, as they play through their winnings as well as their initial bankroll.
Every $1 spin on a slot machine has the same 5 cent theoretical profit for the casino, assuming your 95% RTP.
I would expect if 1000 people with $100 each came in that they would play about 1,000,000 $1 spins (or equivalent), and house profit would be about $50,000.
If each spin took a slow 10 seconds, that would mean each player would play about 2 hours 45 minutes. On a more realistic 6 seconds per spin, that's a little longer than an hour and a half. Both of these numbers are well within what I've seen as possible.
If the place is 60% full for 14 hours, this is doable on about 250 machines.
I have no idea if this covers rent on the slot machines and TITO units.
Money played: $1,300,000
Money returned: $1,210,000
Commission: $90,000
So the $1,300,000 isn't necessary what people put on the machine. I would expect that people only put $130,000 or less. So if the casino received $130,000 in cash and returned $90,000, the real return it's near 30%? (!)
Administrator
Hi!
Thank you! I've read this forum for many years. I really appreciate your response. I was checking some oficial documents from the local government regarding the financial statistics from the local casino and here is some of the info from the last month (Approximately. I'm using example numbers):
Visitors per month: 9,000
Average spend per visitor: $50
Total wagered on slot machines: $4,950,000
Real monthly RTP: 95%
So, as you can see, people spent approximately $450,000 in the month, but wagered $4,950,000. That's eleven times the total spend. I don't know if I'm not understanding correctly the document or there is a kind of error. What does that mean? That the profit of the casino it's the 8% of the total wagered? ($247,500) Or it's just the 8% of the total spend? ($36,000)
Well, those are a bit different, perhaps made more complicated by translation from Spanish to English.
If I'm interpreting based on how it's done here:
Free Slot Spins
$4,950,000 is called the 'drop', or how much is 'exposed' by all the gamblers together by making wagers.95% RTP is what was returned to players from that drop, or $4,702,500. So the 'win' or 'hold' on the machines was $247,500, the other 5%.
The 9000*$50 per person (assuming this is only what they directly bet, not the amount they spent on their entire visit, like the economic impact including bar profits, gift shop, whatever), reflects the real impact of the HE on repeated exposure of your money to it. The house edge takes a cut at your money every time you cycle it, not just the first $100 you expose. And that adds up. So I would say, the house was able to keep (gross) 55% of the money made available to them during that month (247,500/450,000), while that base amount (450,000) was exposed to them approximately 11 times per $100 available.
Online Real Casino Slot Games
I could, as always, be wrong. But I don't think those numbers are unrealistic.
Dragon Spin Casino Slots
So it's normal that slot machine players wager 10 times their initial bankroll?
Some more, some less, but I think this is a reasonable approximation for many players. This matches what I generally observe for 'normal' players.
Compulsives and AP's are different, but averaging them together might come out around the same.
Gross revenue (WIN): $450,000, which it's the amount of visitors * average spend. I'm really trying to figure how much this casino earns, haha.
Administrator
So it's normal that slot machine players wager 10 times their initial bankroll? And the real profit of the casino it's a % of the total wager? This casino have a large screen which holds all the statics from the previous day. Example:
Money played: $1,300,000
Money returned: $1,210,000
Commission: $90,000
So the $1,300,000 isn't necessary what people put on the machine. I would expect that people only put $130,000 or less. So if the casino received $130,000 in cash and returned $90,000, the real return it's near 30%? (!)
The $1,300,000 is exactly what people put in the machine. Your question is (I think), where did that money come from? It could 100% be straight out of people's pockets, it could be them cycling the same money 10 times, 20 times, 30 times on average. That answer is the RTP. If everybody just plain lost, and kept feeding new money into the slots anyway, the RTP would be 0%. In your example above, the RTP is 93.077%.
So the casino made $90,000 that day. Other days, it could be a negative number, if the money returned was larger than the money played. But for the real impact on the players, you'd have to know how many came in (the numbers you listed before) and their average or actual losses. I'm sure the casino tracks those, but what they really want to know is how much of the money that came in people's pockets stayed in their casino. They could've broken everybody and realized 100% of what came in. Maybe it was 2%. In your previous example, it was 55%. I'm sure those metrics matter to them in determining what games to keep offering, what clients to concentrate on making into repeat customers, whether their staffing is appropriate (not leaving people with money looking for games, but also not a lot of paid staff standing at dead games). But the bottom line is they made 90K that day, or almost 7% of the drop. That's actually a little low, I think; again, I could be wrong.
Players share their thoughts on beating the Slot machines
By John Grochowski
When penny slots emerged, the game manufacturers needed a way to make bonus wins big enough that players thought they were worth playing for. Games with higher volatility, and bigger payoffs, were necessary in order to make them seem worthwhile to penny players
Casino Slots Games Online
Slot machines are not 'strategic' games like blackjack or video poker. There are slots that require you to make decisions, but none that are going to shift the long-term odds of the game.
That doesn't stop players from trying to think of ways to beat the slots, and many have emailed to ask if there is any validity to their strategies. Let's check a few out:
Tim, Pennsylvania: 'I know that on video slots we don't have to bet the max anymore. I usually just cover the all paylines with one coin bets. But one day I doing well—I was up to five coins a line on a penny slot, and I got to thinking. Would I have been better off to switch to one coin a line on a nickel slot? The nickels have higher paybacks, right?'
That's a theory that gets a qualified 'yes,' but with a whole lot of reservations. For one thing, Tim's theory assumes that you can find the same game on both pennies and nickels in the same casino. That's by no means a given.
Even if you do find the game at both levels, the penny and nickel version won't always have the same number of paylines. If you're on a penny game with 20 or more lines, will you be satisfied to find an older nickel version with nine or 15 lines? If fewer paylines won't keep you entertained, there's no point in putting your money in the machine.
Then there are a whole slew of 'ifs' about the type of game, such as:
Is the payoff on every winning combination simply multiplied by the coins-per-line wager, or is there a disproportionate jump with bigger bets? The disproportionate jump is why three-reel slots have higher payback percentages when you bet the max. Most video slots don't have that kind of disproportionate jackpot jump, but double-checking is prudent.
Does the game have a progressive for which you'd be ineligible if you bet only one coin per line? Progressives have enough of their overall return tied up in the jackpots that you shouldn't play if you can't get the full pay.
Are there symbols or bonuses that are unlocked with higher wagers? Bally has a video version of Blazing 7s that works this way, where a one-coin per line bet won't activate the 7s. I recently played a version of the Cars game from Incredible Technology that needed at least a two-penny bet per line to unlock a bonus event. If you can't get all that a game has to offer for a one-coin per line bet, and betting more than one per line is outside your bankroll's comfort zone, then you need to find a different game.
If the game is a pure multiplier, and you can get all the features with one coin per line bets, then yes, the game's payback percentage probably is higher on nickel versions than on penny machines. It's standard operating procedure for casinos to offer games with lower payback percentages on pennies than on nickels, which pay less than quarters, and so on up the line.
Scott, Indiana: 'I go to a casino that has signs on slot machines saying that some give double points every day, some give 3x points, and others give 4x points. They're not the flashiest games. They're not offering that deal on The Hangover or The Wizard of Oz. They're mostly penny video free-spin kinds of games. Can those extra slot points make the games profitable?'
If multiple points were enough to turn no-skill games like slot machines into profit centers for players, the casino wouldn't be making the offer.
Let's make a couple of assumptions and do a little arithmetic. First, let's assume the games pay 87 percent, which is pretty normal for a penny slot. And let's assume the player rewards club pays 0.25 percent in free play. An example of that would be a club in which each $4 in play earns one point, and each 100 points is redeemable for $1.
At those levels, single points effectively turns an 87 percent game into an 87.25 percent payer, with the combined return going up to 87.5 percent at double points, 87.75 percent at triple points, and 88 percent at quadruple points.
Multiple slot club points can't even begin to make up the entire house edge on penny slots. Even on dollar slots, where some generous casinos return 95 percent, 4x points raise that only to 96 percent—nowhere near profit level.
If there's an opportunity for slot club points to turn a game profitable, it's on video poker in casinos that offer top-notch pay tables. Full-pay Deuces Wild (100.8 percent) and 10-7-5 Double Bonus Poker (100.2 percent) are among a handful of games that return more than 100 percent to the few who play at expert level.
Those games are few and far between. Even in Las Vegas, those pay tables are becoming rare, and there are some jurisdictions in the United States where they are illegal. Illinois, for example, won't allow any games with a theoretical payback percentage of greater than 100 percent.
In some circumstances, multiple slot club points can turn the next tier of games into profitable possibilities, provided you take the time to learn to play them well. Full-pay 9-6 Jacks or Better returns 99.5 percent with expert play. A 0.5 percent player rewards bonus turns it into a potentially profitable game.
But Scott didn't mention video poker in the list of games drawing multiple points where he plays. So that rewards bonanza is just a nice little perk—something extra to take away if you enjoy the games that bring the added points.
Ella, Louisiana: 'My strategy on the video slots is to look for games that have those bonuses where you make picks. I seem to be able to play a lot longer and have more fun on those games. My sister doesn't agree. She likes the games with the free spins and says my games are boring, and that you can't win anything playing them. Do you think that's the right strategy, going for the pick games?'
There is a difference between pick-‘em and free-spin games that Ella is picking up. When video slots made their breakthrough in the United States in the late 1990s, they mostly had pick'em-type bonus events. They were low volatility games designed to keep players in their seats. Big jackpots weren't the order of the day. It was all about small, frequent bonus wins to extend play and entertain customers.
Many fans of three-reel slot games found that style boring. To them, the thrill was in chasing the jackpots, even at the risk of fast losses.
When penny slots emerged, the game manufacturers needed a way to make bonus wins big enough that players thought they were worth playing for. Two hundred nickels thrilled some on the first video slots, but 200 credits on a penny machine is only two bucks. Games with higher volatility, and bigger payoffs, were necessary in order to make them seem worthwhile to penny players.
That's where free spins came in. The math of the games can work so that it's possible to win thousands or tens of thousands of credits in five or 10 or 20 free spins, but it's also possible to win next to nothing. Artistocrat Technologies of Australia was already making free-spin games. Other manufacturers followed suit, and it became an extremely popular format.
Nowadays, with many of the most popular video slots featuring multiple bonus events, it's a bit of an oversimplification to say free-spin games are for jackpot chasers, and pick'em games are for those who want to sit back and be entertained. But that's where the roots are, and it remains true to some extent. In seeking out pick'em games, Ella has the right strategy for getting what she wants from a game—extended play, and lots of fun.
